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LEANing

This topic contains 164 replies, has 46 voices, and was last updated by  dwissbrun2 3 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 165 total)
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  • #35721

    mattym
    Member

    The way I use "gentlemans game" refers to you and your opponents playing by the rules, whatever they may be. Pong is fun mainly because of the competition and the wild atmosphere.

    #35722

    mattym
    Member

    I, to this day, have not met anyone who can clearly write a rule preventing "excessive leaning" and prevent any arguments at the same time. If you can draw a line between say this much leaning and that much leaning, more power to you. But until then, pigs won’t be flying and whenever a significant amount of money is on the line there WILL be leaning.

    It’s kind of like the rule change(correct me if I’m wrong) for MDBP about a year ago when it was "You have to have 2 feet on the ground when you shoot" and now it’s "you can lift your foot when you shoot."

    This was changed because there was no clear way to tell whether the foot coming off the ground was someones follow-through during their shot, or they were trying to gain extra lean by lifting a foot off the ground.

    It’s better to have a rule that is defined black and white, then have a grey area such as excessive leaning.

    I agree with you and I have said before that this is the main problem; actually enforcing the rule. I understand why the lean is necessary in a tournament setting because it is not feasible to enforce it. At least not yet. I am brainstorming a fool proof, simple way, that does not include using refs at every table to enforce this rule. Cheers.

    #35723
    I, to this day, have not met anyone who can clearly write a rule preventing "excessive leaning" and prevent any arguments at the same time. If you can draw a line between say this much leaning and that much leaning, more power to you. But until then, pigs won’t be flying and whenever a significant amount of money is on the line there WILL be leaning.

    It’s kind of like the rule change(correct me if I’m wrong) for MDBP about a year ago when it was "You have to have 2 feet on the ground when you shoot" and now it’s "you can lift your foot when you shoot."

    This was changed because there was no clear way to tell whether the foot coming off the ground was someones follow-through during their shot, or they were trying to gain extra lean by lifting a foot off the ground.

    It’s better to have a rule that is defined black and white, then have a grey area such as excessive leaning.

    I agree with you and I have said before that this is the main problem; actually enforcing the rule. I understand why the lean is necessary in a tournament setting because it is not feasible to enforce it. At least not yet. I am brainstorming a fool proof, simple way, that does not include using refs at every table to enforce this rule. Cheers.

    Lasers & shock collars ftw!

    #35724

    gshunt
    Member
    I, to this day, have not met anyone who can clearly write a rule preventing "excessive leaning" and prevent any arguments at the same time. If you can draw a line between say this much leaning and that much leaning, more power to you. But until then, pigs won’t be flying and whenever a significant amount of money is on the line there WILL be leaning.

    It’s kind of like the rule change(correct me if I’m wrong) for MDBP about a year ago when it was "You have to have 2 feet on the ground when you shoot" and now it’s "you can lift your foot when you shoot."

    This was changed because there was no clear way to tell whether the foot coming off the ground was someones follow-through during their shot, or they were trying to gain extra lean by lifting a foot off the ground.

    It’s better to have a rule that is defined black and white, then have a grey area such as excessive leaning.

    I agree with you and I have said before that this is the main problem; actually enforcing the rule. I understand why the lean is necessary in a tournament setting because it is not feasible to enforce it. At least not yet. I am brainstorming a fool proof, simple way, that does not include using refs at every table to enforce this rule. Cheers.

    And if you were able to come up with such a method, believe me people here would listen. As of yet though nobody has found such a method, and it isn’t from lack of trying. That being said, don’t let it stop you, more power to you in coming up with something.

    But until such a method exists (which in my personal opinion seems unlikely to happen) then the only way to play big tournaments is with leaning. Therefore if you’re doing feeder tournaments into big tournaments you should allow leaning (i.e. use the same rules). And if you want to dominate in feeder tournaments and big tournaments you should do all your serious practice with leaning allowed.

    Also, I forgot to type it in each case, but wherever leaning is typed in this post I mean excessive leaning.

    It is just the case though that black and white rules need to be used as much as possible in tournament settings, hell I think some of the rules for the wsobp should be more black and white (or at least enforced in a black and white manner better).

    However, pretty much everyone here is fine playing by whatever rules at someone else’s house as it is that individual’s house, and if they want to say no excessive leaning most people on this site would try to adhere to that rule in that individual’s house.

    #35725

    sauce1
    Member

    Matt most of the times I stay away from the leaning post and I decided to put in my 2 cents for a few reasons.
    1 your quote

    Lets try and get this rule changed for the love of the game and to weed out those losers who compromise the integrity of this great game.

    2

    Any beer pong player that leans should be ashamed of himself, ridiculed and be well aware of the fact that they have no skill and a noob status.

    From the people I met on both the East coast and west coast both your statemenets are completely false. Most of the players love the game b/c they are competitive and a lot of that goes back to great HS/College athletic careers. These payers are highly skillful with outstanding hand eye coordination. Many of the players learned the game in college and adapted to the rules. These same people have successful jobs. So as I stated you calling these leaners no skilled losers is the farthest from the truth.
    You have your opinion and im not gonna knock it. I woud just suggest coming out to a few events and giving it a try. If you are good on the 9 ft table you should fair pretty well on the 8 ft and the adaption will come over time. I try to play once a week and there are tournys 5 days a week locally offering decent prizes.

    #35726

    mattym
    Member

    From the people I met on both the East coast and west coast both your statemenets are completely false. Most of the players love the game b/c they are competitive and a lot of that goes back to great HS/College athletic careers. These payers are highly skillful with outstanding hand eye coordination. Many of the players learned the game in college and adapted to the rules.

    That is exactly why I love the game! And I have previously stated so. I was an athlete growing up and i agree with some of your statements. The competition is the best part and I think there is more skill involved when leaning is prohibited.

    #35727

    mattym
    Member

    There is obviously more hand eye coordination needed and more skill with a longer table and no lean. I understand why it is necessary in a tournament to lean, etc but yea I take back my statement that anyone who leans is a noob I just was so shocked that the lean was widely accepted. I understand why it is accepted I just have always hated the lean, thats it.

    #35728

    leftnipple2
    Member

    DOEpong.net – They support not leaning, Check it out!

    #35729

    pauls
    Member

    There is obviously more hand eye coordination needed and more skill with a longer table and no lean.

    That is not true at all. If a non-leaner were able to shoot upwards of %80 consistently as some of the best players in the game do, then it would be true. It is far from the truth though. Taking leaning away would simply lower shooting percentage, and make games last longer. The players with more hand eye coordination and skill would still win regardless of whether or not there is leaning.

    #35730

    bizness
    Member

    Beer pong is a game of skill and leaning should be eliminated from the rules. I am a beer pong advocate from Philly and hope to get involved with the ever evolving city, state and national circut events. When I came across this site and read the rules of local events and the WSOBP I was shocked to see that leaning is allowed. Leaners take away from the integrity of the game. Any beer pong player that leans should be ashamed of himself, ridiculed and be well aware of the fact that they have no skill and a noob status. Beer pong is a game of skill and leaners take away from the beauty of a pure shooters stroke. Beer pong is also a gentleman’s game and any person who leans and does not play by the elbow rule is a dishonest sucker. I can see with so much on the line that if the rules allow it people will lean but I am hoping to make a movement where if it does not become an official rule, it will be looked at as an unoffical rule and an embarrassment to the game. Lets try and get this rule changed for the love of the game and to weed out those losers who compromise the integrity of this great game.

    link

    Death of Elbow-rule!
    shameless plug :exc:

    #35731

    prusch
    Member

    I for one applaud mattym for speaking his mind without getting too defensive (something that I can’t really say about everyone who jumps on whoever brings up these issues).

    He was just hoping there could be a happy medium between an unenforceable rule, and respecting the roots of the game (no one leans in the frat basement).

    It’s an honest problem. If 90% of beer pong players play without leaning, it’s hard to say "we" are right.

    But – 90% of beer pong players have never played for $, and people will do whatever they can to win when $ is on the line.

    #35732

    gshunt
    Member

    I for one applaud mattym for speaking his mind without getting too defensive (something that I can’t really say about everyone who jumps on whoever brings up these issues).

    He was just hoping there could be a happy medium between an unenforceable rule, and respecting the roots of the game (no one leans in the frat basement).

    It’s an honest problem. If 90% of beer pong players play without leaning, it’s hard to say "we" are right.

    But – 90% of beer pong players have never played for $, and people will do whatever they can to win when $ is on the line.

    100% agree with everything Peter said. Its just the truth.

    #35733

    I for one applaud mattym for speaking his mind without getting too defensive (something that I can’t really say about everyone who jumps on whoever brings up these issues).

    He was just hoping there could be a happy medium between an unenforceable rule, and respecting the roots of the game (no one leans in the frat basement).

    It’s an honest problem. If 90% of beer pong players play without leaning, it’s hard to say "we" are right.

    But – 90% of beer pong players have never played for $, and people will do whatever they can to win when $ is on the line.

    I agree that this guy has presented his case in a professional manner, & it brings an interesting point which you brought up. I keep trying to think of ways to promote local pong tourneys, but Jason keeps showing me why it doesn’t work (he’s tried himself), & that reason is exactly what you mentioned, Peter-no universal set of rules-the fact that 90% of pong players (esp in NorCal) have no idea that the WSOBP & their rules exist or that the big time money games involve heavy leaning at times, which leads to bitching & arguing every time. I don’t know who’s " right" or " wrong" in their interpretation. I like to lean because I suck at beer pong (which Jason, Casey, & Boomer will vouch for), & I’d probably not even bother to try it if I had to make cups from behind the edge of the table. My friends & I had one game go for 30 min last week (w/ no OTs) because we suck so bad!! Another reason to allow leaning!
    And no we weren’t drinking heavily.

    I lie. We drank like fish. LOTS of fish.

    #35734

    I wish more people who complain about leaning would be more like mattym. Most people just ignore all arguments and repeat the same thing over and over again. Hes retracted previous statements when given good reasons too and just narrowed it down to his simple opinion about beer pong. Welcome to the forums mattym. Feel free to post anytime you want.

    OK I will get off his dick now..

    #35735

    dub
    Member
    I apologize for starting a thread that has been beaten like ginger stepchild

    you mean Hulse?

    You bastard.

    You beat me to it, Jones.

    P.S. Peter just sounded like my Dad. Now I feel ashamed of myself. Thanks, Peter.

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