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Tracking Stats at WSOBP IV

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This topic contains 40 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by clawless clawless 2 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 41 total)
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  • #16936

    skinny
    Member

    It has always been an interest of ours to tracking individual player shooting stats at the WSOBP. We have discussed this a bit this year, and have a couple of ideas. Please let us know which idea you guys think works best.

    1) We give each player a ‘scoresheet’ and a pencil for each game. It is each players responsibility to mark down the result of each shot. So, after each shot, a player has to mark a hit or a miss.

    2) For every game, each team designates another person (friend / girlfriend / prison cellmate / whatever) to mark that team’s shooting down on a scoresheet.

    3) We put ‘tally counters’ on each table. These are the types of counters you would see the bouncer at a club holding to count the number of people coming through the door. There would be four counters on each side of the table. They would be labeled “Player 1 Hit”, “Player 1 Miss”, “Player 2 Hit”, “Player 2 Miss”. After each shot, it would be the responsibility of the guy who just shot to hit a button for hit or miss.

    I could give my view of the pros/cons, but I’m interested to see what you guys thinl.

    #16937

    dwissbrun2
    Member

    i love the intent skinny, but people are gonna bullshit this for sure. people will fudge their numbers & then the rest of us who report our averages honestly will look like scrubs in the stats.

    if you want to track something, then track how many cups each person hits. you know the max possible per game is 10, and i’m guessing most guys won’t say to their partner, "that’s cool you can mark 2 of mine down as yours"

    #16938

    sfoster
    Member

    You can’t rely on the players to do this IMO.
    What will happen is that people may track their stats correctly for good games, but then not report anything at all in the bad games and thus create a skewed percentage.

    This may not even be intentional, but if someone is shooting badly they’ll probably get very agitated and they will quickly lose interest in the distraction of shot tracking and instead try to refocus all of their energy into the game.

    After all – what is more important, winning your match or continuing to track your misses?

    Personally I am big into stats, but I am not interested in distractions at the WS.
    Stat tracking is to help you practice and see improvement, the WS is more a time for action.

    #16939

    skinny
    Member

    i love the intent skinny, but people are gonna bullshit this for sure. people will fudge their numbers & then the rest of us who report our averages honestly will look like scrubs in the stats.

    if you want to track something, then track how many cups each person hits. you know the max possible per game is 10, and i’m guessing most guys won’t say to their partner, "that’s cool you can mark 2 of mine down as yours"

    While I tend to hold the belief that most people are fairly honest when it comes to something like this, I do understand that some people will be a bit dishonest. Fortunately, there are ways to analyze the data to rule out unreasonable results. Fortunately, I know a guy who does this sort of thing….

    #16940

    sfoster
    Member

    Fortunately, there are ways to analyze the data to rule out unreasonable results. Fortunately, I know a guy who does this sort of thing….

    Unless two teams are friends, and/or they both say "lets forget about those last 3 turns where all of us missed." Then everybody gets a higher percentage, so both of them come out ahead.

    Granted this is much less likely than an individual team trying to pull a fast one..

    #16941

    travis14
    Member

    there are also going to be some people in my opinion that arent going to want to do this during the game. Me personaly i dont want to have to worry about writing something down after each shot i take. I am going to be concentrating on trying to win the game and not really have my mind on writing something down each time i shoot. Just my opinion

    #16942

    skinny
    Member

    there are also going to be some people in my opinion that arent going to want to do this during the game. Me personaly i dont want to have to worry about writing something down after each shot i take. I am going to be concentrating on trying to win the game and not really have my mind on writing something down each time i shoot. Just my opinion

    Well, with option 3, all you have to do is hit a button after each shot….

    #16943

    I definately agree with foster, dwiss, and travis14. Tracking stats is cool and Ive played in leagues where I have done it but for the World series I would think people want to give their undivided attention on winning the game at hand and not having to tally a hit or miss after every shot. I thought last world series was perfect how it was set up. Wins, losses, and cup differential (which is obviously counted after the game) should be all that matters. I am a total stat guy myself but charting makes and misses will only hurt the experience of WSOBP 4.

    #16944

    dwissbrun2
    Member

    there are also going to be some people in my opinion that arent going to want to do this during the game. Me personaly i dont want to have to worry about writing something down after each shot i take. I am going to be concentrating on trying to win the game and not really have my mind on writing something down each time i shoot. Just my opinion

    i hadn’t even thought of that part… i agree, i get in the zone during a game & don’t worry about how i’m hitting (whether good or bad).

    my suggestion about just keeping track of hit cups is really the easiest. we did it in our pong league last spring. your oppents simply place a hit cup on the side of the table that you stand on… ie, i stand on the left side of the table, so when i hit a cup my opponent removes it and places on the right side of the table (right – from his perspective).

    this approach takes very little attention from any of the players & in the end you have some kind of stat of how everyone is doing.

    travis is right though, i’m not going to keep track of every shot, it will take me out of my game

    good idea though skinny. one day when there’s enough money you’ll just be able to pay people to keep track of it.

    #16945

    wianek
    Member

    yeah, this would only make sense if people on the side (a friend or random bystander) are keeping track of the stats. i don’t want to think about marking a shot down or hitting a tally button since I want to be fully focused on shooting.

    i’m sure there would be some teams that decided to cheat, but i think most teams would be honest. even if a team did cheat i think it would be pretty obvious they did. also, both teams facing each other would have to cheat in order for it to slide since there is a mathematical correlation between both teams shooting percentages and the number of cups left on the table.

    #16946

    travis14
    Member

    i think its a good idea dont get me wrong. Im just saying after i take a shot im not thinking about writing it down or pressing a buttong. I have my head in the game and thats all i care about. I dont care if i had a bad game and only made 1 cup and my partner carried me that game. Im there to win each game and not worried about writing down how many cups i make or miss. Like i said its just my opinion

    #16947

    sfoster
    Member

    If you guys have a few cameras recording the area, players could watch themselves a few weeks after it’s over and tally their shots this way.

    Wouldn’t be the best footage of games, but maybe enough to tell when you made or missed and have that online for peer review / verification

    If not for the preliminaries then at least for the final tournament i could see this being feasible.

    #16948

    sfoster
    Member

    my suggestion about just keeping track of hit cups is really the easiest. we did it in our pong league last spring. your oppents simply place a hit cup on the side of the table that you stand on… ie, i stand on the left side of the table, so when i hit a cup my opponent removes it and places on the right side of the table (right – from his perspective).

    this approach takes very little attention from any of the players & in the end you have some kind of stat of how everyone is doing

    If you add a little slider bar like the scoring system for an air hockey table, you can mark a notch to keep track of # turns.

    That gives enough info to derive everyone’s shoot %, and it’s much less invasive but it’s also easy to get caught up and forgot to mark when a new turn begins.

    #16949

    sfoster
    Member

    * That is to say, you could derive a reasonably accurate estimate of everyone’s shooting %

    #16950

    prusch
    Member

    Taking stats is definitely a little time consuming mid-game, and it can be a little distracting. (no one has mentioned the need to be present to knock away that rare straight up bounce off the front of a cup, which you can’t do if someone is shooting while you’re marking a tallysheet).

    However, a note to those that have never actually played competitively while taking stats – it can be helpful to have that stat sheet stare you down after every turn. It makes you internalize those 2-3 turn stretches of misses, helping you concentrate. (so I’ve heard…. I shoot 93% so never have missed more than 1 in a row. Another benefit to stat taking – it’s humbling. Before I took stats I thought I was a 97% shooter. After taking stats for the last 15 years, I’ve realized I’m only 93%)

    Regardless – I think it might be hard to convince everyone that it’s not that hard and only takes .13412 seconds to mark a tally. Especially since most players at the WSOBP aren’t serious enough to post on here, and even the serious players are showing a lack of interest. Personally – I think it would be effing amazing to have shot stats for the best teams from around, and all from the same event. Cup differential is ok as a stat, but doesn’t say much. Smashing Time’s 12 game 55 cup differential was impressive, but I think it’d be more so to see how they shot each of those games.

    Maybe it’s the sort of thing that volunteers could take for the final day. All you need is 1 person per table. I wouldn’t mind sitting in for scientific advancement for an hour or two if I wasn’t playing, but I probably care to look at such details more than the average person.

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